The "Alton" Experience

[Roger Medoff]

Fellow Altonites: I attended Alton for approximately seven years, late 50's through mid-60's. My younger brother, Peter, also attended Alton for many years (he died several years ago of AIDS).

Peter and I both felt very strongly that, notwithstanding all of the positive aura associated with Alton, all of the tradition, all of the comradery, long-lasting traditions and relationships, there was also very clearly (to us) a dark side to the Alton experience.

Alton was, by any reasonable analysis, an intensely competitive, sports-oriented place. This, despite the many varied non-competitive activities (e.g. crafts, nature, etc.) that were included in the total program.

In our opinion(and we discussed these concerns in depth with Peter Guralnick during a visit back to Alton years ago), Alton embodied an overriding sense of a classic Brittish boarding school, with hazing, overreaching favoritisism, a relative disregard by both the more popular campers, and counselors, for the less competitive, less "in" kids.

Such emblems as the Chief reading a passage from the Old Testament every morning at the Rocks, immediately followed by his announcement of the current cumulative Gray-Green score, reflect qualities of Alton that, in my opinion, make it both a somewhat unique Summer camp as well as grist for Saturday Night Live.

Over the years, I have told Alton stories to friends who often listened in disbelief, stories such as "bad" campers being stuck in the woods during flagrush, or bunks with low morning inspection scores having their personal belongings thrown in the lake later in the day (to teach them a lesson), all with the tacit approval of counselors who, after all, still felt an allegiance to "their team" and to the spirit of Alton traditions. The possibility that these were sadistic acts never seemed to enter the staff's radar screen.

It was mainly years later, after I left Alton, that I began to fully reflect on these issues and articulate this darker side of Alton which, to my memory, traditionally thought very highly of itself, perhaps to the point of arrogance including an inability to fully reflect on some of its possible shortcomings.

I was not a nurd. I was, and still am, a pretty good athlete, at age 51. But I was never the Alton "A" Team type, usually B, sometimes C, and with a pretty good dose of pre-adolescent and (later)adolescent lack of confidence, coupled with self-consciousness. I was not unusual;just a regular boy who did not normally excel at sports or, forwhatever reason, lacked the required amount of self-confidence (whether real or fabricated) and aggressiveness to break into the true Alton "family".

I honestly believe that Alton neither had the insight, nor the capacity, to adequately address these sorts of very normal childhood issues. Alton catered to the seemingly (and sometimes really)talented, often (but not always) arrogant campers, and the same, sadly enough, could also often be said of the counselling staff.

Alton was indeed a "family", but my experience was that many campers, including myself, were not wholly part of that family. We were kind of guests; the "family" consisting of more of an "in-crowd" of both campers and counselors.

I will be very interested to hear feedback on this message. I expect denial, criticism, and even anger. The "Alton Experience" from my observation, contains a heavy element of self-righteousness and self-protectionism based on tradition, bravado, a very strong "old-boys" network and, ultimately, an element of pure ignorance and insensitivity. Alton had a rather high percentage of entitled, often talented but meanspirited (supported by the staff!)campers. I know about that stuff; I grew up in Newton, Mass. like many other Alton boys did!

Cheers,

Roger Medoff
Assistant Attorney General
State of Maryland


rjom@erols.com

[KenWarshaw]

By my first year at Alton (1982), there were no counselors throwing clothes in the lake, there was no one assigned to the woods for Flag Rush, and hazing was frowned upon 100%. In fact, in my first or second year, Bunk E missed a trip day and was forced to paint the corral fence for turning on the water hose into another bunk. However, I too was a fringe Altonite, never gaining entry or acceptance into the close circle that was the Alton Family (queue up the Godfather music).

I was an average athlete mixing my time between A and B teams; my physical development was late and my maturity slow. My self-confidence was not what it should have been and I never seemed to fit in with the A-list. I had lots of friends, and everyone there knew my name, but I never truly FELT acceptance the way that others were. But looking back on it now, I realize that it was my PERCEPTION that skewed the reality. Sure, I wasn?t the best athlete or the funniest guy, but I loved camp, and that meant that I shared an inexplicable bond not only with the people whom I shared 7 summers, but also everyone who ever came to Alton and fell in love with her physical beauty, her serenity, her competitiveness, and the total camp EXPERIENCE.

It has been 14 years since I have been to Wolfeboro, and in that time I have only spoken to one former Altonite (I ran in to Dave Hansburg in Tempe, AZ back in 1990). Most of the people reading this either have no idea who I am, or haven?t mentioned my name in years, but I know that if I run into one of them on the street someday, we can smile and remember the days even if the only word we exchange is ?hello?.

The Alton Experience is subjective; it is the individual perception that decides what it is. For me, it is Music Night, it is nameless faces running on the A-Field, it is the tears shared by campers and counselors alike on the last day of camp, it is the freezing cold Winnepesaukee water in June, and it is The Point at sundown.

Was there favoritism? Yes. Was there intense competition? Yes. Was camp always easy? No, but that?s the point. The lessons I learned at camp will be with me forever. And one of the most important lessons I learned while I was there?there are as many positives to be gained by sometimes being left out and losing, as there are by always being included and winning.

Thanks,
Ken



kbwarshaw@aol.com

[DDD]

Thank you for your msg. Ken. Very positive!

I certainly remember you and many other campers from 1982!

Do you recall that it was that summer that we brought our son Colin (now 6'2" and on the high side of 280 lbs...) to CA that summer as an infant of 6 weeks?

Cheers!

Dave Davis

[url=http://slashdot.org]http://slashdot.org[/url]

[Mike Prager]

hello, boys. this is my first post, even though i've been checking you out for a year, perhaps longer, since my cousin, the inestimable larry miller, told me about the site.

i was glad to read roger's post yesterday, and want to add, briefly, that his isn't a lone opinion. i was among the more maladjusted youngsters during my four summers there (i didn't come back because my parents decided i'd be better off at a fat boys' camp) and often felt not a part of. (i had to laugh, quietly, to myself, when, after jeff g.'s funeral a few weeks ago, i heard 40-year-olds talking about the 35s and 25s they still have in their trophy rooms. i have the eternal honor of having spent my last rush in the woods; conceivably, i would still be proud of my booty, had i gotten any ... i dunno.)

the thing is, i don't think i've ever blamed the camp for having such a hard time socially; i think i woulda been a screwed up individual no matter what camp i went to. it w-a-s competitive (i heard this often at other camps: "color war all summer long? you mean, not just a week?"), and there w-a-s an inner circle (or appeared to be from off where i was standing), but that, too, would have been the case elsewhere, or so i have always thought.

one thing worth nothing, for those who might think it's all a crock: roger's opinion is unusual here because the audience is skewed: the people who would frequent a community that ceased existing (on terra firma, anyway) 10 years ago -- and much longer ago for many of us -- would tend to be those who felt a strong positive connection, and want to keep it alive. everyone else -- the kids who didn't stay more than a summer, or who stayed longer but didn't love it the way many of you did -- is hanging out where they did connect, or just watching tv. (so then what am i doing here? i'm thinking that if i act just a little bit better, i might get out of the woods for the age-50-and-over rush.)

speaking only for myself, my attitude is, "whatever." i'm not going to be going to summer camp anymore, so alton's always going to be "my" place in my memories, whatever the details were.


mmarbs@earthlink.net

[Rick Snyder]

Your still in the WOODS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rsnyder24@yahoo.com

[michael stone]

i never lookd at camp all that deeply only to reflect on a great time of my life..69-77......i see some of your points...i was usually an A teamer althopugh not a great athlete..in fact i sucked at arts and crafts and the other stuff....i do see a class system that took place,but you did not have to be an athlete(although it helped)..if you had a sense of humor you had a shot....and while i sense Roger that you look down on it,I dont think it was much different than any society of 150-300 kids....some loved it..some didn't..and those that didn't should have left....
maybe the fact that you are an assistant attorney general for maryland and i am just a sportscaster,reflects on my shallowness...but to me camp was a helluva lot of fun..it had blood sweat tears friendships and laughs...alton like many socieites was its own culture with its own language.....and i would not have wanted it any other way...

stoneyfan@aol.com

[Roger Medoff]

I never WAS in the woods!! I was speaking in general terms, citing an institutionalized example of how older campers treated younger, often vulnerable, campers rather poorly, often with staff support.(And, by the way Ricky, its "You're still in the WOODS!!!!!, not "Your still in the WOODS!!!!!!!!" (Sorry, couldn't resist. I taught English before becoming a lawyer.)

How's "Lead-Ass", anyway? You no-doubt know that that was your brother, Bobby's, nickname at Alton. I'm not sure why. I think that it was because, despite Bobby actually being a very good athlete and a really smart guy (and a nice guy, too), he sometimes moved kind of in slow motion or was in a fog of sorts, like he was deep in thought. I believe he's a dermatologist, right?

Anyway, I'm not recalling his nickname to be mean. I liked Bobby. We were also classmates at Weeks JHS, and I went to his Bar Mitzvah (we weren't close friends, but friendly enough to invite each other to our Bar Mitzvahs) which, if I remember correctly, was unusual because it was on a Friday night rather than on the usual Saturday morning.

So, come on, would Bobby ever have had a Woodsman at his Bar Mitzvah!! Ofcourse not!

But, you apparently took my Alton posting a bit defensively? Was I treading on hallowed ground? Hey, I looked at the message board and all it had was mainly guys yapping about Celtics vs. Nets! Come on!!! Boooooring! I didn't even see any BEER available on the website, so what's the point??!!

Anyway, Mark Brecker, who I have been writing back and forth with a bit since I posted my apparently "off limits" message, assures me that you're really a nice guy and he kind of implied that I probably shouldn't take your response to personally (or seriously??). You tell me.

I do intend to respond to all of the responses to my posting sometime soon, probably in some general fashion, but I just couldn't resist sending you a personal response since your reaction to my posting was the only exclusively critical, meanspirited and non-reflective one that came through so far (unless I misinterpreted it). But you get special credit for succintness. Only five words. I envy you (Honestly!) I can't even open my mouth without uttering less than 20 words! (Yeah, Yeah, I already know I'll hear something from you about that!)

Chow.

Roger Medoff
(Gray for life!)



rjom@erols.com

[JBass]

DDD-
All I remember was the counting when he started to cry...

Jordy

PS. When are we going back to Lonesome Lake???

[Regretful Rabbi]

I seem to recall the name "lead ass" was given [by Phin?] to the eldest Snyder, Mark, not Bobby. Of course when Bobby was old enough to join the 12 year old team, he may have inherited it [and deserved it?].

I recall that any deficiencies of Mark in rounding the base-pads were compensated for by his power [even as a 12 year old]. Still, getting him to speed up was pretty much like pulling teeth [although he therefore may have "gummed" up the works by entering that profession].

I've written quite a bit to Roger, trying inadequately to apologize. The year I was his counselor was perhaps my worst camp year [when in reality it should have been my best]. The year before I was in the kitchen [which was still preferable to being "in the woods"], so, re-joining my colleagues as a junior counselor should have been the highlight of my Alton experience. However, I was avaricious.

Though still at that time downing hams and clams, mixing milk shakes with cheeseburgers [I've since learned a bit about cholestoral, but not how to spell it], etc., I knew or thought I knew enough about Judaism to fake being the camp chaplain in order to pick up the $50 bonus. That it meant I had but one night out with fellow J.C.'s [and the other with C.I.T.'s] was the the cause of the devastating results. Rather, it was my miserable failure on Friday nights [all hell would break loose] made me, I'd like to think, "grumpy", but "depressed" would more accurately describe the result. I sought help from all levels of staff to help turn Friday Night, if not into Shabbos, at least something respectable. When this did not succeed, by the second half of camp I became obsessive and a burden on everyone [including poor Chief whom I loved and admired].

This only increased the depths of my melancholy and may have impacted on other functions [teaching swimming] and, those who paid for it most were, as in a household, the camers in my bunk.

So, I've apologized to Roger privately, do so now publicly, but to him and the others in the bunk whose names I more or less recall [in addition to Bobby S. there were M. Lewis, D. Gardner, J. Freeman, R. Korb, M.[?] Schlansky, and one or two others my present dementia blocks me from recollecting].

As we old Brooklyn Dodgers fans were used to saying [and take it from one who was at the game and recalls seeing "The Shot Heard Round the World" a la Bobby Thompson] NEXT LIFE [I'll try to make it up to all of you in O-2 that year].

Peace Brethren
Moish

mark@lgpltd.com

[DDD]

Jordy, I hiked Mt. Lafayette last summer (a mere 5,000+ footer, compared to Washington at 6,288), and my back almost wouldn't go there with me!

But Lonesome Lake hut is muuuuch easier to get to. I'd take the tram. ;-)

DDD

[url=http://slashdot.org]http://slashdot.org[/url]

[Biff Levy]

Hello Roger - long time no whatever. I write to point out that although you were not in the woods as a camper, perhaps you were as an English teacher. Please note that in correcting Ricky's grammar faux pas,you wrote, "Ricky its...." I'm sure Rick joins me in pointing out that "its" should have been "it's". Do over.

flevy@dwyercollora.com

[Roger Medoff]

Biff,

You are absolutely correct! And to think, when I wrote the response to Ricky I tried especially hard to make sure that that would NOT happen, in order to avoid enabling Ricky to respond as you just did! (In my own defense, when I wrote the response to Ricky I recall just having eaten too many Necco "Noogie" Wafers, followed by a Sugar Daddy - I stopped boycotting the Welch candy company after they were bought out, which made the John Birch Society issue a moot point - and therefore had too much of a sugar buzz which, no doubt, weakened my proofreading ability.)

Anyway, notwithstanding my own grammatical error in the context of correcting Ricky, such error on my part does not put me in the woods as an English teacher.

On the other hand, if that is your ONLY response to my response to Ricky or to my original posting on the message board, perhaps YOU were in the woods as a counselor.

NOTE: I admit it. I haven't totally figured this Alton message board thing out yet. Here I go again, impliedly accusing yet another Altonite of lacking the capacity for reflection or insight, or of showing any interest in going beyond vacuous regression into adolescence. Something must be wrong with me. On the one hand, I kind of enjoy the Green v. Gray crap still coming out of 50 year old guys (myself included),particularly the exchanges regarding the case in which Egbert is the defense attorney, pitted against Mouse the prosecutor. Kind of cute. In all honesty, I like that one.

On the other hand, is that all there is?!

Is raising serious questions on this website a no-no? Were you only joking in your response to me; am I reading too much between the lines? (Ricky sent me an email after I responded to him in which he made it clear that he was not really serious. But, you're not Ricky.)

Frankly, the more I get into this, the more I realize that I do, in fact, enjoy the dialogue, as well as many of the memories it triggers.

The problem is, very few of the many people who obviously monitor the message board and who get off, say, on the Celts/Nicks thing, seem to show any interest in any serious reflecting on the "Alton Experience", the Alton aura. Why is that? My brother, Peter, and I, both stuck it out at Alton for 7 or 8 years but later reflected on it with rather intense criticism. Neither of us were in the woods, we were both at least decent athletes and human beings (Peter, I admit, was a better athlete than me, and he went on to captain three different team sports at his high school, Roxbury Latin, outside Boston.)

One respondent impliedly asked why I stayed at Alton if I didn't like it? Well, life's not that simple. Ten year olds don't necessarily know whether they definitely do, or do not, like something. And, even if they do know, such decisions are complex. Not to mention that I DID like a number of things about Alton. My original posting was probably very one-sided partly because I was counteracting the shallowness I perceived on the board, or perhaps was just being provocative. Hey, isn't that most likely what this is all about?!

Bottom line: More people seem interested in burping out one-liners about the Boston/New York basketball rivalry than they do about talking about Alton in all of its facets. That may, in fact, be a GOOD thing. Or, it may not. And, believe it or not, I'm not really a super-serious guy; I'm generally considered a funny, non-sanctimonious person with an often dirty and/or sarcastic sense of humor, and a strong sense of the absurd.

So, why am I getting off on this? Perhaps in part because most of the dialogue on the website seems quite shallow to me and I can't help shaking things up a bit, stomping on some hallowed ground.

But, as I said, maybe I just don't get the thrust of this forum. Maybe it's (not "its"!)not the place for seriousness. You tell me. You were, after all, one of Alton's "icon level" counselors. I was never a counselor at all, only a regular(non-in crowd)camper.

Roger

Forever Gray (In fact, charcoal gray IS one of my favorite colors, and I don't just mean in terms of business suits. Wow, maybe it IS more in my blood than I knew!!)



rjom@erols.com

[DDD]

Roger -

I've run online messages boads for years (and been a reader on them for much longer.

Online fora are almost univerally like this, unless a strong moderatorial hand keeps everyone in line. There's no need for that here- the objective is just to have a forum around a common point of interest, from days past.

Your 'Alton Experience' question was well worth asking, though.

But as far as reasonable expectations for responses - ya get what ya get. Consider the problem statistically - Some folks who might answer reflectively, never read this board; some who do read it don't happen to choose to respond; some who happen to choose to respond do so flippantly; some may respond with sarcasm or other layers, but still embed a serious point within their response. Ya get what ya get.

Cheers,

Dave Davis, who preferred hiking...in the woods.



[url=http://rightslink.copyright.com]Dave's Little Universe[/url]

[Biff Levy]

Roger - You are correct. I was in the woods as a counselor - as often as I could be. Also, I spent a great deal of time in a tent at the campcraft area, at the point and at Commissioner's Rock.
I remain,
The Battling Biffer

flevy@dwyercollora.com

[The Ghost of Doom]

Hey Roger:

If you don't like the Celtics banter, or anything else on the website, then why don't you get off and stay off the bwokin thing!

domm@aol.net