Joel O, Don't fret. As Reb Dovid Davis will tell/has told you, all is well with Bonnie, Isaac and all their progeny, including "Baby" Zamir [who attended Alton in '86 at Age 4, for a planned 5 day "long weekend"]. Glad David did not give a "blow by blow" description of the interaction between me and the kosher butcher's workers of "Mid-East origin"!
Zamir is totally serious about his intellectual, educational, and religious endeavors [which prevents me from gossipping at services with Isaac, and I thought that was the main purpose of going to shul/anywhere!].
18 yr. old Ovadya is studying in Israel, becoming increasingly nationalistic, acting totally oblivious to dangerous situations [sleeps on Israel's seafront beaches, hangs out all night at places where youth congregate - which constitute favorite, "worthy" terrorist targets - chases after all females without regards to their age {unlike his aging/aged obsessed unc} and/or ethnicity {thus warming his unc's ultra-liberal heart!}], and even dares to traverse the roadways in vehicles driven by Israelies!
Elianna has become a wonderful young lady [who also forbids my making sly, snide comments about others - which leaves me speechless], a joy, like the others, to my Moms [who, thank G-d passed the 7/8 of a century "mark"], whose school recently lit the Chanukah candles with President Bush in the White House.
Now, Ken, as to "Our Land" [and its defilement]. It doesn't really matter whether what you saw was THE camp or a resulting situation. Unfortunately the latter is becoming more and more pervasive which, in part, explains why there are less and less camps with fewer and fewer of Alton's attributes. Are there good camps? Probably. But there never was, and never again will be, a place and program peopled by those of our beloved.
B'ahavat Alton,
Reb Moish
P.S. Just joking about my fellow Semites in the butcher store. Except perhaps for Paule [and Reb Nachum who made aliyah to Brooklyn], they are among the few culturally able to accept and tolerate my veltunchang [world view? am not sure what it is and surely have never been able to properly spell!]
mark@lgpltd.com
No Problem Joel and Ken
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KenWarshaw
- Member
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 8:00 pm
- Location: Hingham, MA
Ethical Discussion (please read on a Friday Night)
Without re-opening old wounds and re-visiting the personal abhorrance that some now feel toward Peter, I would like to get some input from all of you as to your thoughts of WHY Camps are closing...or why they have closed.
I will start by giving my theory and please feel free to tell me if you think I'm full of merde (Markie, what's the Yiddish word for crap?)
First, it seems that during the real estate boom of the ninties, some long-time summer camp owners and directors saw the opportunity to make some easy money and secure their retirement, or pay for their kid's college, or whatever. The bottom line is that the money was good, really good, and for some who may have never had it, the offer was too good to pass up.
However, as we all know (and we show through our participation in this message board) there is a love of camp (not just OUR camp) that money can't replace. So, while the money may have been good, it doesn't seem like that alone would cause the mass exodus that seems to have occurred. There must have been something else.
I have long been a subscriber to the theory that the current (starting about 10 years ago) generation gap is, by far, the largest in the history of modern civilization. Regardless of WHY that is, it simply IS. The elderly can communicate with most of the thirtysomethings of today, but not with the twentysomethings, and certainly not with the teens. The baby-boomers who so fervently fought for civil rights, opposed the vietnam war, and introduced quite possibly the greatest era in music history have completely lost their hope (I'm generalizing, of course). They seem to have given up. They see kid's who don't respect anyone (including themselves), they see kid's who no nothing about government, politics, literature, and history. They see Columbine, they see date-rape drugs, they see riots after sporting events, they see pop stars who make terrible music are so self-absorbed, and they ask themselves "what was it all for?"
And if I were a baby-boomer (or even older) who directed a summer camp, I might have to wonder if these kids are worth all the work. I would have to wonder if my dedication, if my time, if my sanity is making any sort of difference. Are the kids getting anything out of the camp experience, and more importantly, is CAMP getting anything from the kids? And THAT, combined with a nice offer from a developer, is why these camps having been closing at alarming rates.
Am I generizing? Yes. Am I stereotyping? Yes. But in this case, there seems to be some truth to the generalizations.
Thanks, look forward to hearing from all of you.
Ken
kwarshaw@linwoodcom.com
I will start by giving my theory and please feel free to tell me if you think I'm full of merde (Markie, what's the Yiddish word for crap?)
First, it seems that during the real estate boom of the ninties, some long-time summer camp owners and directors saw the opportunity to make some easy money and secure their retirement, or pay for their kid's college, or whatever. The bottom line is that the money was good, really good, and for some who may have never had it, the offer was too good to pass up.
However, as we all know (and we show through our participation in this message board) there is a love of camp (not just OUR camp) that money can't replace. So, while the money may have been good, it doesn't seem like that alone would cause the mass exodus that seems to have occurred. There must have been something else.
I have long been a subscriber to the theory that the current (starting about 10 years ago) generation gap is, by far, the largest in the history of modern civilization. Regardless of WHY that is, it simply IS. The elderly can communicate with most of the thirtysomethings of today, but not with the twentysomethings, and certainly not with the teens. The baby-boomers who so fervently fought for civil rights, opposed the vietnam war, and introduced quite possibly the greatest era in music history have completely lost their hope (I'm generalizing, of course). They seem to have given up. They see kid's who don't respect anyone (including themselves), they see kid's who no nothing about government, politics, literature, and history. They see Columbine, they see date-rape drugs, they see riots after sporting events, they see pop stars who make terrible music are so self-absorbed, and they ask themselves "what was it all for?"
And if I were a baby-boomer (or even older) who directed a summer camp, I might have to wonder if these kids are worth all the work. I would have to wonder if my dedication, if my time, if my sanity is making any sort of difference. Are the kids getting anything out of the camp experience, and more importantly, is CAMP getting anything from the kids? And THAT, combined with a nice offer from a developer, is why these camps having been closing at alarming rates.
Am I generizing? Yes. Am I stereotyping? Yes. But in this case, there seems to be some truth to the generalizations.
Thanks, look forward to hearing from all of you.
Ken
kwarshaw@linwoodcom.com
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Markie
Re: KEN BABES, THE MORE THINGS CHANGE,
THE MORE THEY REMAIN THE SAME.
Am not sure what this has to do with camps and/or how it impacts/impacted on our Camp.
But I was struck with your view [you're over thirty, but not by much, no?] of those more than a decade younger. It sounds [unbelievably] familiar, just what I heard a decade ago, the decade before that and when I had been a teen ager [a view I then but no longer have].
I think it is shaped by perspective, but probably not one which is very accurate. Return, for instance, to a house [or neighborhood] you lived in as a kid. I [almost] guaranty it will look smaller, shabbier, and duller than you would ever have thought possible.
And that is the process which, in general, you young but slightly aging persons are going through. I couldn't believe after returning as a 23 year old from Ethiopia [when unlike NY Transit workers, we "struck" against the NYC Dept. of Social Service but was immediately rescued by the sheltering arms of our Chief thus starting my Asst. Waterfront Directorship], how self-centered and materialistic Alton's youths had become. But a decade later that changed. You [teens/pre-teens] demonstrated such care, concern and kindness for this [and many other] fossils, that I realized how inaccurate had been my earlier [mis] perceptions.
Ken [and all of you], keep searching for and analyzing these topics [even though you may only gain a modicum of knowledge and insight].
Now get moving to evening assembly!
Uncle Markie
P.S. To answer your linguistic question, I was raised believing the word for "merde" to have been "scheiss"; now that I'm old enough to vote, perhaps it's all "dreck".
mark@lgpltd.com
Am not sure what this has to do with camps and/or how it impacts/impacted on our Camp.
But I was struck with your view [you're over thirty, but not by much, no?] of those more than a decade younger. It sounds [unbelievably] familiar, just what I heard a decade ago, the decade before that and when I had been a teen ager [a view I then but no longer have].
I think it is shaped by perspective, but probably not one which is very accurate. Return, for instance, to a house [or neighborhood] you lived in as a kid. I [almost] guaranty it will look smaller, shabbier, and duller than you would ever have thought possible.
And that is the process which, in general, you young but slightly aging persons are going through. I couldn't believe after returning as a 23 year old from Ethiopia [when unlike NY Transit workers, we "struck" against the NYC Dept. of Social Service but was immediately rescued by the sheltering arms of our Chief thus starting my Asst. Waterfront Directorship], how self-centered and materialistic Alton's youths had become. But a decade later that changed. You [teens/pre-teens] demonstrated such care, concern and kindness for this [and many other] fossils, that I realized how inaccurate had been my earlier [mis] perceptions.
Ken [and all of you], keep searching for and analyzing these topics [even though you may only gain a modicum of knowledge and insight].
Now get moving to evening assembly!
Uncle Markie
P.S. To answer your linguistic question, I was raised believing the word for "merde" to have been "scheiss"; now that I'm old enough to vote, perhaps it's all "dreck".
mark@lgpltd.com