In the past I've requested/suggested that we refrain from anonymous postings [for many reasons]. First, it would encourage abuse. Worse, it is a cowardly way of bringing about that to which no Altonian [or others] ought to be subjected. We should all take responsibility for what we do. "Lastly", many of us want to respond to the author directly to avoid cluttering the message board [a misdemeanor the nature of which I am a major perpetrator].
My e-mail to "domm@aol.net" having been returned "addressee unknown", I communicate publicly to the [masked but not mute] contributor as follows:
I don't expect this to get to a real e-mail address [and am probably more foolish than you may believe is my camper Roger for taking things seriously].
Everything in life has its positives and negatives, even the website. So Roger takes the good with the not so good. Don't we all?
I liked the issue oriented/thought provoking nature of Roger's initial [and subsequent] message[s]. But I did not like that fact that it made me recollect that summer when I [more than any other] failed the campers in my bunk. But, inasmuch as it afforded a chance to do t'shuvah, this too had a silver lining.
Be well,
Uncle Markie
mark@lgpltd.com
The "Alton" Experience
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Andy "Farty&
Re: The "Alton" Experience
On the lighter side... what was wrong with the woods? At least I could smoke my dope while you jocks were running around in the sun.
Seriously, I wasn't a competitive athlete (I believe my athletic skills were called putrid) or a "cool" camper, and being excluded from the cliques did at times suck, but today memories of my years at Alton are mostly fond. My interests in music, photography and tennis were nurtured and I looked up to Peter and several of my counselors (and fellow campers) very much. My only regret is not staying in touch with my summer friends when I moved to Florida.
Andy "Farty" Feldman
Captain of the Woods 1976/7/8 (?)
[url=http://www.kidbazooka.com]http://www.kidbazooka.com[/url]
kidbazooka@hotmail.com
Seriously, I wasn't a competitive athlete (I believe my athletic skills were called putrid) or a "cool" camper, and being excluded from the cliques did at times suck, but today memories of my years at Alton are mostly fond. My interests in music, photography and tennis were nurtured and I looked up to Peter and several of my counselors (and fellow campers) very much. My only regret is not staying in touch with my summer friends when I moved to Florida.
Andy "Farty" Feldman
Captain of the Woods 1976/7/8 (?)
[url=http://www.kidbazooka.com]http://www.kidbazooka.com[/url]
kidbazooka@hotmail.com
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Little Cibs
A View From the Woods
There were Woodsman at Alton that were not sent to the woods as punishment for being bad campers. There was an elite group of highly skilled and trained Woodsman, of which I was the leader for 3 glorious years.... As some of you may recall, I was not gifted with the talent for athletics.. Being rather small and timid on the "A" field, the Seniors of the 67 Rush offered me the post of "Captain of the Woods". I was charged with organizing and supervising an elite team of Woodsman.
If not for my contributions, it is entirely possible that Dennis Krumholz may have taken the Fifty over without as much as an acknowledgement... But thanks to the highly Skilled Captain of the Woods -- I blew my whistle with shrill and speed alerting the entire camp of this spectacular occurence. I was asked to repeat my efforts in 68 and in 69 was "Captain of Defense" and supervised the entire defense from the Woods....
I don't have a 50 on my wall -- but for many years I cherished my boundary flag -- adorned with the signatures worthy of a true gladiator....
Although I never developed a taste for sports.... I still can blow my cherished whistle better than any other Altonite....
Take Care,
Jerry "Cibs" Cibley
Jerry@odysseysol.com
If not for my contributions, it is entirely possible that Dennis Krumholz may have taken the Fifty over without as much as an acknowledgement... But thanks to the highly Skilled Captain of the Woods -- I blew my whistle with shrill and speed alerting the entire camp of this spectacular occurence. I was asked to repeat my efforts in 68 and in 69 was "Captain of Defense" and supervised the entire defense from the Woods....
I don't have a 50 on my wall -- but for many years I cherished my boundary flag -- adorned with the signatures worthy of a true gladiator....
Although I never developed a taste for sports.... I still can blow my cherished whistle better than any other Altonite....
Take Care,
Jerry "Cibs" Cibley
Jerry@odysseysol.com
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Jeff Goldman
Re: The "Alton" Experience
Roger, thanks for posting your message. I completely agree with you--when I take the time to look at this site, I am looking for messages like yours and not for a review of last week's sports page. But I also agree with the comment of my old friend DDD: with the web, ya get what ya get. Because of all of the small talk and personal notes that fill these pages, I now only check in every four months or so. And that is okay, because this site should be whatever everyone out there wants. But I suspect that the vast majority of people who look at this site do so infrequently and do not add the chat, mostly because of the lack of substantive conversation.
My experience with this site is that when I first heard of it, I immediately reconnected with two friends from 1971-1976 that I had not spoken to in 25 years--Jim Senker and Robert (Albert) Levy; we spoke for over 2 hours, laughing a lot and silent a lot as we recognized how much camp had effected our lives, and how similar our lives are today. And although we emailed a couple of times, we are now on with the craziness of our lives (like most of you, I suspect, trying to balance work, soccer, softball, and life) and have not emailed each other in over a year. But it doesn't really matter--thanks to this site, we now know how to get in touch with each other when the time is right.
On the lighter side, life is great. My daughters (9 and 7) have heard every story about Alton that my aging mind can possibly remember. They want to hear stories about the dusty red "50" that sits in the corner of our attic; and they want to know about the plaque with the Green/Gray score and list of Prize Campers from 1971 (did you all know that when Camp closed, they auctioned off Alton memorabilia at one of the Marson dinners as a fundraiser for the annual scholarship given at Boston Latin?) My cousin Chuck Goldman bought me the plaque from 1971, fresh off of the rec-hall wall, and although I still have not found the right spot for it in my house, I am glad I have it. The girls ask me all the time to tell them again about the time Alton beat Belknap, DeWitt and Wyanoke in the track meet in 1976 when we won the final relay (first time in my six yrs at Alton that we won that annual meet). I vividly recall the pride in Jeff Greenfield's voice when he made the announcement at the Rocks that we had won the meet. A true favorite question the girls ask is "Dad, tell me about when you were bad", and the details of how Mark Brecker caught Andy Ades and I sneaking out of I-1 at night are as vivid today as they were in 1976.
A true highlite of my life as an adult was two summers ago when my brother Bob, cousin Chuck and I brought our kids to Alton to walk around. My girls finally could put a picture to the many hours of stories. I will always remember when my then five year old daughter Alexa engaged me in an adult conversation about why it was okay for us to be walking around the property, ignoring the "No Trespassing" signs. She won that debate (and many others since), but we still walked right up to the old Tower and found our way to the campcraft area, despite overgrown shrubs. One day maybe she will appreciate how happy I am that we ignored the No Trespassing signs.
I plan on repeating the numerous Alton memories I shared with my daughters with my one year old son Jake, if he ever sits still long enough to listen. He may not get to go to Alton as a camper, but I think he will still benefit from the excitement and sense of bonding that has stayed with me all these years.
Goldman@tht.com
My experience with this site is that when I first heard of it, I immediately reconnected with two friends from 1971-1976 that I had not spoken to in 25 years--Jim Senker and Robert (Albert) Levy; we spoke for over 2 hours, laughing a lot and silent a lot as we recognized how much camp had effected our lives, and how similar our lives are today. And although we emailed a couple of times, we are now on with the craziness of our lives (like most of you, I suspect, trying to balance work, soccer, softball, and life) and have not emailed each other in over a year. But it doesn't really matter--thanks to this site, we now know how to get in touch with each other when the time is right.
On the lighter side, life is great. My daughters (9 and 7) have heard every story about Alton that my aging mind can possibly remember. They want to hear stories about the dusty red "50" that sits in the corner of our attic; and they want to know about the plaque with the Green/Gray score and list of Prize Campers from 1971 (did you all know that when Camp closed, they auctioned off Alton memorabilia at one of the Marson dinners as a fundraiser for the annual scholarship given at Boston Latin?) My cousin Chuck Goldman bought me the plaque from 1971, fresh off of the rec-hall wall, and although I still have not found the right spot for it in my house, I am glad I have it. The girls ask me all the time to tell them again about the time Alton beat Belknap, DeWitt and Wyanoke in the track meet in 1976 when we won the final relay (first time in my six yrs at Alton that we won that annual meet). I vividly recall the pride in Jeff Greenfield's voice when he made the announcement at the Rocks that we had won the meet. A true favorite question the girls ask is "Dad, tell me about when you were bad", and the details of how Mark Brecker caught Andy Ades and I sneaking out of I-1 at night are as vivid today as they were in 1976.
A true highlite of my life as an adult was two summers ago when my brother Bob, cousin Chuck and I brought our kids to Alton to walk around. My girls finally could put a picture to the many hours of stories. I will always remember when my then five year old daughter Alexa engaged me in an adult conversation about why it was okay for us to be walking around the property, ignoring the "No Trespassing" signs. She won that debate (and many others since), but we still walked right up to the old Tower and found our way to the campcraft area, despite overgrown shrubs. One day maybe she will appreciate how happy I am that we ignored the No Trespassing signs.
I plan on repeating the numerous Alton memories I shared with my daughters with my one year old son Jake, if he ever sits still long enough to listen. He may not get to go to Alton as a camper, but I think he will still benefit from the excitement and sense of bonding that has stayed with me all these years.
Goldman@tht.com
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Paul Kates
Re: The "Alton" Experience
Seems as though you don't really get it at all. Part of the Alton "lure" was the fact that you had different ages of boys thrown together by luck or fate from mainly the East coast, so the "review of the sports page" as you and Roger so kindly name is, is part of the Alton Experience whether you like it or not.
But the depth of the stories that you two remember from sometimes thirty of forty years ago tend to cause me a little bit of dismay, especially the "Woodsmen" stories.
I was no great athlete (in the least) but I do not think there was conspriacy by the counselors or other staff at Alton to "single" out those that were less athletes than others. If anyone was "singled" out and kept out of the fray, it was me (Thanks for that saying, Markie!) but it was no fault of Camp Alton. It was my fault. I don't sit here, some forty years after the fact, and blame my jaded childhood (I came home from Camp in 1979 with only two thongs - one left one and one right one, different colors)on the Camp.
Camp provided an outlet for many different people to spend their summers and if they weren't athletes, they found other things (arts -n- crafts, outdoor life, boating, performance,, etc.) to make their mark on the Camp.
And one thing is for sure, the counselors had as much fun at camp as the campers, which is why the Camp functioned so well while it was open. Soem campers didn't exactly fit in; some counselors didn't exactly fit in (I think I didn't fit in in either category), but I refuse to place any blame at the feet of the staff! And if you teach your kids any differently, then you are as jaded now as I was when I was a camper (and that's saying something!)
Paul
kates@lucent.com
But the depth of the stories that you two remember from sometimes thirty of forty years ago tend to cause me a little bit of dismay, especially the "Woodsmen" stories.
I was no great athlete (in the least) but I do not think there was conspriacy by the counselors or other staff at Alton to "single" out those that were less athletes than others. If anyone was "singled" out and kept out of the fray, it was me (Thanks for that saying, Markie!) but it was no fault of Camp Alton. It was my fault. I don't sit here, some forty years after the fact, and blame my jaded childhood (I came home from Camp in 1979 with only two thongs - one left one and one right one, different colors)on the Camp.
Camp provided an outlet for many different people to spend their summers and if they weren't athletes, they found other things (arts -n- crafts, outdoor life, boating, performance,, etc.) to make their mark on the Camp.
And one thing is for sure, the counselors had as much fun at camp as the campers, which is why the Camp functioned so well while it was open. Soem campers didn't exactly fit in; some counselors didn't exactly fit in (I think I didn't fit in in either category), but I refuse to place any blame at the feet of the staff! And if you teach your kids any differently, then you are as jaded now as I was when I was a camper (and that's saying something!)
Paul
kates@lucent.com
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mike stone
Re: The "Alton" Experience
great post..camp was the experiences..the friendships..the cutting down..the sports..its amazing how many friends refuse to believe no electricty in a bunk and going two months without a real shower..(ivory soap ups forever)
and while i know the sports posts may seem juvenile,we used to do it all the time at camp..the rivalrys between the new york ,boston,and philly campers with their teams were priceless...
i have the 1970 plaque in my garage....we just moved,and i cant find a greatplace for it,that my wife will approve........
take care
stoney
stoneyfan@aol.com
and while i know the sports posts may seem juvenile,we used to do it all the time at camp..the rivalrys between the new york ,boston,and philly campers with their teams were priceless...
i have the 1970 plaque in my garage....we just moved,and i cant find a greatplace for it,that my wife will approve........
take care
stoney
stoneyfan@aol.com
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Sid
Re: The 1970 Plaque
Stoney - 1970 was my senior year and was also the year the GREEN team stole the total year victory out from under the heavily favored grays (Dana, Cadiff, Levitan, Harris, Snyder and other too numerous to mention). To this day I can still hear the whining of the losers who believed they was robbed. Oh well. By the way what was the final score as recorded on the plaque ?????
mclevy@xpnonline.net
mclevy@xpnonline.net
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Gary Scharoff
- Site Admin
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:00 pm
- Location: Scarsdale,NY
- Contact:
Re: The 1970 Plaque
Speaking of scores...does anyone know if there is a record out there for all the final scores over the years...would love to get that listed???
Would also love to get some pictures from those that may have some of the old plaques in their possesion...
If you can supply any of that please let me know!
Thanks,
Gary
gms@pipeline.com
Would also love to get some pictures from those that may have some of the old plaques in their possesion...
If you can supply any of that please let me know!
Thanks,
Gary
gms@pipeline.com
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Gary Scharoff
- Site Admin
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:00 pm
- Location: Scarsdale,NY
- Contact:
Virtual Rec Hall
That's the idea...
I have some great pictures from the dinner last night...made the 3 hour trip for the dinner then came back to NY afterwards...worth the trip!!!
Had a little e-bay auction action at the dinner last night...the sign that used to hang out on Roberts Cove Road...a classic piece of Alton memorabilia...I hope to have all the pictures up on the site by today...tomorrow at the latest!!!
Check back later!
Gary
gms@pipeline.com
I have some great pictures from the dinner last night...made the 3 hour trip for the dinner then came back to NY afterwards...worth the trip!!!
Had a little e-bay auction action at the dinner last night...the sign that used to hang out on Roberts Cove Road...a classic piece of Alton memorabilia...I hope to have all the pictures up on the site by today...tomorrow at the latest!!!
Check back later!
Gary
gms@pipeline.com